Sick bags, share registers and a crane: How did Lufthansa become a legend?

[LS] We have approximately one kilometre of files in the archive, about 3,000 objects from Lufthansa's history, over 100,000 pictures.

[CK] We have a large collection of sick bags. And you could indeed open the window and throw the sick bag out. And, because people were probably embarrassed, they then disposed of the sick bags out the window, and the residents were apparently not very pleased about it.

[VO] Above and Beyond—the podcast by Lufthansa Airlines. For insights into aviation.

[AH] 100 years measured in human years is called very old. Measured in company years it is called enduring. And if you fly to the Sun and back around 400 times a year, that’s an incredible 120 billion kilometres per year. Then perhaps it’s time to open up the archives and ask, “Oh but what have we actually been doing for the last hundred years?”

The Lufthansa brand has made it. Next year marks exactly 100 years since Lufthansa emerged from Deutsche Aero Lloyd and Junkers Luftverkehr AG. However, we are actually talking about two companies, the old and the new Lufthansa, because the company was re-established after the Second World War and therefore has no legal connection to the old Lufthansa. Nevertheless, altogether it is 100 years, and that is a good reason for a new season of Above and Beyond, the Lufthansa Airlines podcast. Five episodes await you, in which we dive into the history of Lufthansa, the brand, its fleet, its route network and also its crises. When you have existed for so long, there is much to tell. Today we want to talk about: What does Lufthansa know about itself? Where does the company get its knowledge, and where is it kept? I am Anja Heyde and I am pleased to welcome the old and new keeper of Lufthansa’s history, the archivist, Carola Kapitza, and Luisa Schürmann. A warm welcome to both of you.

[CK] Hello.

[LS] Hello.

[AH] So where do we start? Ms Kapitza, how does one become an archivist at Lufthansa? And is that even a job that one can manage alone?

[CK] Yes, that was actually more or less by chance. I joined Lufthansa in the mid ’80s and I am a librarian. I was also in the specialised library at that time. The specialised library was incorporated into the archive at the beginning of the 1990s. This is how I ended up in the archive and the archival work increased more and more. And when my predecessor retired, I became the head of the archive. And regarding the question of whether you can handle it alone, of course there is always too little staff. There are many things you would like to do which you often can’t do due to time constraints. But I think that’s the case for most employees. That is not an exception.

[AH] Ms Schürmann, you have assumed the succession.

[LS]: Exactly. I succeeded Ms Kapitza – quite classic. The position was advertised, I applied. Before then, I studied archival science and thus found my dream job.

[AH] Wow, that’s quite a statement. Now, you’ve brought a few items from the archive that are just lying here on the table. How much material is there just lying dormant?

[LS] It is only an estimated value. We have approximately one kilometre of files in the archive, so files are measured in running metres. We have many objects, about 3000 objects from Lufthansa's history – so, 3D objects. The archive also includes the photo archive. There are now over 100,000 pictures.

[AH] Of course, there’s always something being added.

[LS] There’s always something being added. Exactly.

[AH] In a day?

[LS] In a day … let’s say in a year, I would say five metres of files and pictures are made daily.

[AH] Ms Kapitza, you mentioned that you became the guardian of the Lufthansa treasures – if you want to see it like that – from the mid-’90s. Now you have been retired for five years. How did it all actually start?

[CK] Well, when I came to the archive, it was still in Cologne. And, as is fitting for an archive, also in the basement. And we actually only had documents, so it was a purely paper archive because we also didn’t have more space and didn’t have more capacity. And I came in there and there were ‘focus cabinets’, on top of each of which lay about one metre of loose paper. That all had to be sorted – you know, that means it was looked at, evaluated. Do we need to keep it? Can it be discarded? And then it was filed thematically in folders. That’s how I got to know it at the beginning.

[AH] And now, Ms Schürmann. So, was everything handed over, nicely sorted? What do you do then?

[LS] What do you do then? It is sorted. Of course, new material is always added, both digital and analogue. So files and also many pdfs, word documents, etc. They still need to be sorted and of course recorded in a database so that they can be found again, because with one kilometre of files you have to search.

[AH] So, now you have said there is a collection of specialised books, there is a photo archive, other films too, right?

[LS] We have films too, yes.

[AH] And does that mean that constantly some scientists or hobby researchers are at your door knocking and saying, “We would like to have a look”?

[LS] Partially, yes. So we do have a lot of inquiries from colleagues, of course, who want to know something about the history, but also from external scientists, students, private inquiries, who know that maybe their grandfather worked for Lufthansa and [who] want to learn something here.

[AH] … who come here …?

[CK] Yes – partly also quite bizarre requests, for example, from book authors who want to work as authentically as possible and then ask, “Yes, in my book, there’s a scene – it’s in 1972 – where the main character flies from Berlin to London. When did the machines take off, what type of machines were there, and how long did the flight last?” So, in terms of questions, it’s actually colourful. Or [journalist and TV quiz show presenter] Günther Jauch inquires – of course, the editorial team, not himself – to clarify some question that is supposed to be asked in the quiz, and they want to verify it with us. So it really is a mixed bag.

[AH] I get the impression that one has exciting conversations.

[LS] Yes, it is detective work that is really fun, because you already know many of the inquiries. You have the answers ready relatively quickly. But there are also requests that surprise you and where you really have to delve into the files first. You have to ‘read in’ to find answers here.

[AH] So, now I’ve already revealed it. Dear Above and Beyond listeners, what you can't see but will hear shortly, is [that] we’re going to rummage around here. You’ve brought a few things because there are, you said, how many objects were there by now? 3,000, I think?

[LS] 3,000, yes …

[AH] … are lying there in the archive, and a few of them are here. Where does it all come from?

[CK] A large part was, actually, we bought back then, because I had already mentioned [that] in Cologne we actually had a purely paper archive. Then the library was added, then the image archive was added. And when we then moved here, to Frankfurt, we were able to acquire a very large collection from a private collector. We got a lot of dishes, received old uniforms and otherwise really varied. We always said we collect everything with ‘Lufthansa’ written on it, or with the crane logo.

[AH] And it also comes from private individuals who then say, “Here I found something at home in the…”

[LS] … many attic finds. So fortunately, when houses have to be cleaned out, many people turn to us and donate to us the objects.

[AH] “Here, my grandpa obviously took a Lufthansa plate back then”, or…

[CK] … teaspoons.

[LS] Exactly. And many colleagues who feel connected to the company also give us their treasures.

[AH] Do you each have a favourite piece?

[LS] It’s hard to say ‘favourite piece’, because every piece has its story. And behind the story, there are always people who have experienced something.

[CK] Yes, well, there’s already something here on the table. We have, for example, the really old items are of course always interesting and almost nobody knows. I also looked up on the internet where the name ‘Lufthansa’ actually comes from. Who invented it?

[AH] Who invented it?

[CK] That was Mr Fischer von Poturzyn. He was the press chief at Junkers Luftverkehr, and he wrote a book that was supposed to be titled ‘Aviation Policy Opportunities’. And that was in 1925 – so, before the founding of the so-called ‘old’ Lufthansa. And he described in the book that air traffic should in the future gain significance for world trade, like the Hanseatic League in the Middle Ages. And he used this word in his text. And the publisher Werner Lehmann said that ‘Luftpolitische Möglichkeiten’ is not a name for a book, and he eventually decided that the name ‘Luft Hansa’ would be used as the book title, at that time still written in two words. And after that, on the 6th of January 1926, the newly founded airline was named, practically after this book.

[AH] Exactly. The book is also here. Yes, already a bit worn, a bit tattered, if you will.

[LS] It’s already 100 years old.

[AH] It’s 100 years old. That you can still get your hands on it at all. It says ‘Luft Hansa’ in big red letters – ‘Fischer von Poturzyn’. So it just … that was trawled out of the paper archive.

[CK] Yes.

[AH] Where you sorted all the files and then found it?

[CK] Yes. Well, that has been in our archive for a long time. It has already been collected because it is paper and my predecessor had already collected it.

[AH] There’s still an old book lying around here …

[LS] The share ledger.

[AH] For all those who don’t understand it, what is a share ledger?

[LS] In the share ledger, all shareholders who own shares of a company are recorded, naturally with a value and amount.

[AH] This is from when, the share ledger?

[LS] This share ledger is also from the founding of Lufthansa in 1926, because the special feature here is that at the very back of the book is the founding certificate of the first Lufthansa, from the 6th of January 1926. And thus it is essentially the beginning of our company.

[AH] And is that maintained by hand?

[LS] This is kept in handwriting, in Chancery hand. So, very neat.

[AH] You’re not used to it any more, but it’s beautiful. And how did the share book, given its age, end up in the archive?

[CK] Yes. That was a chance discovery. The ‘new’ Lufthansa was founded in Cologne and was housed in the old university on Claudiusstraße in Cologne. And when the new Lufthansa building on the Rhine bank was completed, the janitor was sent to the basement to clean up. He was supposed to destroy everything, but he found this book down there and got the idea to ask if it might actually be valuable and shouldn’t be destroyed.

[AH] He was very clever janitor.

[CK] Yes, and since my predecessor was already there – the archive was created in the early ’70s – he gave it to him, and since then it has been one of our greatest treasures.

[AH] And here in the middle, we have a beautiful … what is it? Silver brass bowl – in any case?

[LS] A silver bowl. This is a ‘thank you’ from Lufthansa to one of their employees, from 1937. Lufthansa wanted to explore the flight route to China in 1937, and the southern route was too long. And Lufthansa decided to explore the direct route over the Pamir Mountains and sent two planes – two Junkers Ju 52. One had to make a stopover on the way due to the lack of fuel, but a Lufthansa plane managed to fly over the Pamir. In this was also a board member at the time, Freiherr von Gablenz, and he was imprisoned on the way back, in China, with the co-pilot and a radio operator mechanic.

[AH] No! That’s a crazy story.

[LS] Yes. The three were imprisoned in China for one month. Germany sent out search flights because no one knew what had happened to these three Lufthansa crew members. And at that time, there were many internal political conflicts in China. And here…

[AH] … that’s the bowl. Excuse me, I just briefly … you have to imagine at home – it’s a bit like a salad bowl with four little legs and an embossing inside.

[LS] Exactly. And they were captured by a Chinese general. And after one month, this general was defeated by another general, who released them. They returned to their Ju 52. And they managed to cross the Pamir Mountains again on the way back, and after one month they appeared in Kabul, and everyone was naturally very surprised and delighted. And the expedition was extended by exactly one month. And they then returned to Berlin. And as a thank you, Lufthansa had this bowl made.

[AH] But it only says ‘Mr Senior Radio Operator Kirchhoff’ in there.

[LS] Yeah, there were two more included.

[CK] There were three. But Mr Kirchhoff bequeathed us his entire estate, all his flight logbooks, all his flight pins, meaning the awards for flown kilometres. And that included this bowl.

[LS] And also the map you had to cross the Pamirs. We have to imagine flying with a map back then, not with GPS. That is also still in the archive.

[AH] It is also still in the archive. Speaking of cards, here are menus in various versions. This is the breakfast menu. Breakfast card from – oh God, it’s so small. From when is it? Look, you can still read that with your eyes. I exactly know that.

[LS] The menu is from May 1957 and shows what was served for breakfast on Lufthansa flights.

[AH] And here we have … here is another card, a beverage menu for domestic traffic. Lufthansa. Very cute. It’s a man sitting on a crane on the cover with a cigarette and probably a glass of wine. By the way, cigars and cigarettes are also offered on the menu.

[LS] At that time, smoking was still allowed on aeroplanes, and cigars were also served in the first class.

[AH] That’s very cute. And I already browsed through it a bit earlier – there’s only one large menu here, but I assume this is more for first class, right?

[LS] This must be a first class menu.

[AH] ‘Scallopine di Vitello alla Venezie’. That all sounds very delicious. This means the chef flew along?

[LS] At times we had a cook, a steward on board, who served the guests and cooked on board in a proper chef’s jacket and chef’s hat.

[AH] Well, those were the days, but not everyone could handle the food. Even today, there are ‘barf bags’ on aeroplanes. Although this one here has … this is my personal favourite object. It says, on a very, very sturdy, sick bag: ‘After use, do not throw out of the aeroplane, but close and place on the floor’. When you write something like that, Ms Kapitza, there is usually a reason. Could you open the windows, or why does it say that?

[CK] Yes, exactly. So, part of our archive also included, or we have a large collection of, sick bags actually from the entire time of the old Lufthansa/new Lufthansa. And this sick bag, of course, came from the old Lufthansa. It was used in the 1930s, and you could indeed open the window and throw the sick bag out when it was full.

[AH] And because people did that, they prefer to write it on there.

[CK] Yes, we experienced that once in Berlin, when we had a tour of Tempelhof Airport, and then the guide really told us – and that’s how I know it was really like that – that it was a problem for the residents. Well, the old aeroplanes did not fly as smoothly as they do today. I can say that from my own personal experience. With the Ju 52 flight the landings were often very bumpy and, because people were probably embarrassed, they then during the approach – mostly of course to Tempelhof, because Tempelhof was the seat of the old Lufthansa, the centre of Lufthansa – disposed of the sick bags out the window, and the residents were apparently not very pleased about it.

[AH] Strange, I don’t understand at all (laughs). So I would say, let’s make a little stopover here. In the year 1955, Lufthansa had been newly founded two years earlier. It has also been called Deutscher Lufthansa AG for only a few months since 1955, previously ‘LUFTAG’, and there is no regular flight operation yet, but the first aeroplanes are already there.

[Male Voice] For the first time, one of the new Convair planes took off with invited guests on the Hamburg-Frankfurt route. The tireless and always helpful stewardess exemplary attends to the passengers' well-being. The journey through the air is short. The aircraft is already approaching Frankfurt Airport. After this maiden flight, it will really start on the 1st of April. And this is no April Fool's joke, but the serious beginning of the scheduled flight service of the new German Lufthansa.

[AH] That was an excerpt from a film report from the year 1955, about the first take-off of a Convair aircraft from Lufthansa. Taken from the documentary In the Sign of the Crane. So now, since April 1955, we have the regular flight operations of the new Lufthansa. We also have the founding document, although it’s not quite as fancy as the original, the real very old one from the old Lufthansa. But I just mentioned initially it wasn't called Lufthansa, but LUFTAG.

[CK] LUFTAG. ‘Corporation for Air Traffic Needs’.

[AH] That was already the explanation of where the term comes from. I mean, what were the conditions like back then, Mrs. Schürmann? The old Lufthansa had just been dissolved by the allies. So why was there still approval for a new – this time purely West German – airline?

[LS] It was of course already clear at that time that a sovereign state, which [West] Germany then was in the central European location, needed its own airline. And so, the Joint Stock company for Air Transport Needs [‘Aktiengesellschaft für Luftverkehrsbedarf’] was founded to prepare this airline.

[AH] And in the east there was also briefly a Lufthansa?

[CK] Mhm, yes, but that was a bit later. So, the so-called ‘new’ German Lufthansa began operations on the 1st of April 1955. However, legally the old Lufthansa still existed, which was then Lufthansa in liquidation. The liquidation lasted until 1965. But in the fall of 1955, the then German Democratic Republic decided it also needed an airline and named it ‘Lufthansa’. So, in the 1950s, there were three airlines that bore the name ‘Deutsche Lufthansa’.

[AH] What a mess. But from April 1953 to the first flight in ’55, it took almost two more years. What was the reason for that?

[CK] Yes, well, those were the proper conditions, right? Then, in 1953, the founding took place, and in 1954 it was decided to purchase the name and the crane as the company logo and the rights to the colours, so all the trademark rights from the old Lufthansa in liquidation. And then of course, the flight operations had to be prepared because at that time Germans were still forbidden to operate air traffic and also to own aircraft. And on the 1st of April 1955, it was only possible with a special permit from the Allies. It was only in May that this ban on Germans owning and operating aircraft was lifted.

[AH] Ms Kapitza, you mentioned earlier that there was once a big handover, with uniforms, with dishes, with everything that was somehow there. You can kind of tell from that that Lufthansa was also a trendsetter in terms of design. So it was really, like, “Is Lufthansa the icon?” Can we say it like that?

[CK] Yes, I do mean that quite immodestly. Well, in the 1950s, during the reconstruction years, they used the trend at the time, but there were no fixed guidelines. The font was a Times font, and only at the beginning of the 1960s – so, relatively early – it was decided that a comprehensive design basis was needed, which was then worked on, and the University of Design in Ulm – Otl Aicher, at that time the leading person there, [was] tasked with creating a complete Lufthansa design, with uniforms, with a new Helvetica font, with new aircraft livery. So, a completely new design. And he did that. And I would say the design still influences us today. It is still modern, even though we no longer use Helvetica directly, but Luisa can probably say more about that.

[LS] Regarding the design development, in 2018, we had a major redesign at Lufthansa. We got a new font, our own font, the Lufthansa font. And our shades of blue have changed. The yellow has receded a bit into the background, so things do keep happening, also in terms of design. But the foundations for this were laid by Otl Aicher.

[AH] Also, a fixed component in the on-board service of the 1950s is the ‘Lufthansa Cocktail’. It’s also here on the table, by the way – you can’t see it. I can always smell it. At least I can, right?

[LS] Yes, of course.

[AH] The bottle is already opened. By the way. Just wanted to say it wasn’t me.

[LS] It was already like that when I came to the archive.

[AH] I would have said that too, Ms Schürmann: “Yes, but that doesn’t work anymore. What a pity.” Too bad! (laughs) Okay, so you can’t drink it any more either. Do we still know the recipe? Because it was once said to be secret.

[LS] It is still secret today, so we do not have it in the archive. It’s an apricot liqueur that was topped up with champagne on board in the 1950s.

[AH] That sounds simple. At first, I would say, right?

[LS] but it seems to have been very tasty.

[AH] We can’t check it any more now because we can’t open the bottle … too bad.

[CK] Yes, but there was a successor. So in 2005, for the 50th anniversary of the start of air traffic, there was a revival by another company. So it was also allowed to be called ‘Lufthansa Liqueur’ legally. Then in the 1990s, a Berlin company obtained the rights and launched a whole cocktail series with different flavours, and currently there is also a liqueur called ‘Avionic’, but it has the Lufthansa crane on it. However, it can no longer be called ‘Lufthansa Cocktail’. It does not exist, probably for trademark reasons.

[AH] But here too, I already have a bottle in the archive to show the series openly. But that’s just, I mean, regarding secret recipe basis. You still can’t research that today, can you?

[CK] Well, you can find a description on the internet of how to recreate or mix the original Lufthansa Cocktail from the 1960s, but the recipe itself has not been passed down.

[AH] It’s a pity. So, and then I have something else lying there. It’s a little bit far from me now. These are the so-called circular flight plans I see in front of me. It’s about the size of an A3 paper, right? Well, it’s more like, as they used to say, a rag …

[CK] … laminated.

[AH] Laminated. I think the old driver’s licences were also like that, maybe a little bit. And there are actually lots of circles on it with lots of lines. So, then it says Berlin, then Budapest, Vienna, Leningrad. That’s probably a bit older now, Leningrad. So, when is this circle’s flight plan from, anyway? What is it? Maybe start with that.

[LS] This is the Lufthansa route network. We now have the route network from 1936, the year of the Olympic Games in Berlin. And you can clearly see when you have it in front of you. Berlin is the largest circle on this map. Berlin was, as Ms Kapitza already mentioned, the main headquarters of Lufthansa at that time. And from this circular flight plan, you can read all the routes, all the flight connections of Lufthansa at that time, even with prices.

[AH] But at least you can see it must have been manageable because today … it was a European route network. Making the circular flight plan with all the many connections that exist, has probably become rather difficult.

[LS] Today that would no longer be possible, especially because we have no longer fixed prices.

[AH] So to be part of Lufthansa’s history, I wonder how that feels. Jens Ritter has been the chief executive officer of Lufthansa Airlines since 2022. He has also been a pilot for a quarter of a century, and we wanted to know from him what it’s like to shape Lufthansa’s history as a board member and what he wishes for the next 100 years.

[VO] One hundred years of Lufthansa. That sounds like great stories, legends of aviation, moments that connect people. Leading the way is Jens Ritter, CEO of Lufthansa Airlines. He is responsible for almost forty thousand employees and carries the tradition and future of the Crane Airline on his shoulders. When asked what makes Lufthansa so special, he sounds not only proud but also passionate. Lufthansa, he says, is a brand of incredible radiance, to which he also feels very connected.

[JR] The last one hundred years were certainly marked by an incredible number of challenges, by very, very many crises that Lufthansa has mastered. Lufthansa has shaped, revolutionized, and also further developed aviation over many decades. Be it the numerous aircraft introductions that Lufthansa has managed, sometimes also developing new aircraft models in collaboration with manufacturers. Lufthansa founded the first worldwide major alliance, the Star Alliance, and has flown to many new hundreds of destinations worldwide to connect even more people. And ultimately, Lufthansa has designed very many innovations. Be it the First Class Terminal, which is certainly unique here in Frankfurt. Lufthansa was the first airline with internet on board. Just a year ago, we introduced our unique product Allegris. So, it is a very extraordinary story that Lufthansa has experienced, one that we can all be very proud of.

[VO] Ritter himself knows the company inside and out. First a working student, then an engineer, pilot, manager, and for a good three and a half years, CEO of Lufthansa Airlines. He makes no secret of the fact that the last few years have not been easy.

[JR] The Corona crisis, which was certainly the biggest crisis for aviation, hit us hard, and it was difficult for us to develop Lufthansa back to where it currently stands. We have hired many thousands of employees again. We have reactivated and reintroduced almost one hundred aircraft from the so-called deep storage. And we have achieved some very important steps. The operations, meaning the flight operations, are as stable as they have not been in ten years. Customer satisfaction has therefore also increased tremendously. We have introduced many product features, whether in digitalization, in the app, at the airports, but also in the onboard product, whether it's the meals we have improved and many other things, so that customer satisfaction has continuously increased in recent months. We are very pleased about this.

[VO] Despite all the turbulence, it is clear to Jens Ritter that the fascination for aviation and the people who make it possible are what drive him.

[JR] What has always fascinated me is this industry, that we are in as Lufthansa, this combination of technology, internationality, and of course people, employees, but also our guests, our customers. Being able to lead people, being able to motivate people, and ultimately creating new products together, shaping perspectives, I enjoy that immensely.

[VO] And it is precisely this forward-looking perspective that shapes the course Ritter charts for Lufthansa. Tradition and experience should be the foundation to seize new opportunities.

[JR] Lufthansa has a very rich history, marked by many pioneering achievements that we have created. I believe these many crises we have overcome, the challenges we have also mastered, should give us confidence. I think we have very experienced employees. We have an incredible amount of know-how among our employees and an immense passion. And I believe these three qualities should give us confidence that we will shape perspectives together and ultimately develop Lufthansa into what we all expect from Lufthansa, namely as the number one premium airline. I am very confident about that.

[VO] In the end, the question remains, what does the Lufthansa Airlines CEO wish for the next one hundred years? His answer is as simple as it is ambitious.

[JR] What I wish for most is openness. A world that is changing ever faster requires us to be open to new things and to take new paths. Therefore, we must manage to combine our tradition, which is undoubtedly a very great strength of Lufthansa, with a new innovative power. Then I am also very confident that the next one hundred years, which will be very exciting, we will also master very successfully.

[AH] This is how Lufthansa Airline’s CEO Jens Ritter envisions the future of Lufthansa. We will, of course, also deal with the future again in our fifth episode of Above and Beyond. Let’s look into the archive again, into the future of the archive at this point. Will everything be digitised now?

[LS] No, I can clearly deny that. Of course, we now receive a lot of digital documents, which we also store digitally, and digital documents will also become the future in the archive. But we will not digitise everything that is downstairs, because the big problem is, even if it’s available digitally, you have to find it. And that is our main task.

[AH] That means it won’t just disappear into oblivion soon?

[LS] No, it won’t.

[AH] How do you – since you mentioned the problem is finding … maybe work with an AI, because that might make it easier in the future?

[LS] Yes. So, I assume that AI can facilitate archival work, because we naturally have a large, organised amount of data that can be effectively worked with using AI. Especially when it comes to finding things.

[AH] Would you, Ms Kapitza, want to go back to the archive today, under the circumstances?

[CK] Yes. So, it still excites me – it doesn’t let go of me. Otherwise I wouldn't be sitting here today. And I still find it totally exciting. I also find it exciting what is happening now in the context of the 100th anniversary, how work is changing, now also in terms of AI and so on. What is being created here in Frankfurt with the new Visitor Centre and the exhibition. Well, I am still interested, but really going back to working life again, I do not want that. I enjoy my retirement too much for that.

[LS] But that’s the beauty of our profession. We have something new every day, whether it’s interesting inquiries or new topics that concern us. It’s a lot of fun.

[AH] By the way, it was also a lot of fun with both of you. Thank you, Carola Kapitza and Luisa Schürmann, the former and current archivists of the Lufthansa archive. Thank you both for taking the time and giving us a little tour through the archives. You brought along some really great things. You just mentioned it, Ms Kapitza, the Visitor Centre – does that mean it can be visited at some point or can it already be visited?

[CK] It is planned that there will be an exhibition here in Frankfurt starting next year.

[LS] This is the Lufthansa exhibition, allowing us to present our objects partially to the public. And we have dreamed of this for a long time.

[AH] Then many, many thanks to both of you. I can only say it’s definitely worth checking out because I’m already impressed with the little things here on the table.

[CK] It was fun, and goodbye.

[LS] Thank you very much. I can only agree, that was a very nice conversation.

[AH] We’ll hear from each other again in the next episode. Then we’ll take a look at the Lufthansa aircraft fleet from the beginnings to the present. We’ll talk with a former fleet manager who experienced the early years of the jet age, and with a young pilot who has been responsible for purchasing new models in today’s fleet management. I am Anja Heyde and I look forward to next time.

[VO] That was Above and Beyond – the podcast of Lufthansa Airlines. More insights into aviation will be available in the next episode. And for those who don't want to wait that long, follow our Instagram channel lufthansaviews. As always, you can find all the links in the show notes.