Aircraft with lift: How has flying with Lufthansa changed?

[CS] The aeroplane was actually completely different from anything we had before. So, it was a very challenging task to build up this fleet, but I believe we made the A320 a success.

[NL] I think, a key in a future fleet structure is mainly to have a simple fleet which ultimately allows us to act flexibly in the market.

[VO] Above and Beyond—the podcast by Lufthansa Airlines. For insights into aviation.

[AH] Lufthansa has been flying for almost 100 years and as is well known, that is only possible with aeroplanes. The fleet is the backbone of Lufthansa and has radically changed multiple times from the beginning until today. From propeller aircraft to jet-powered jets, from fuel guzzling Jumbo to efficient Airbus. It’s hard to imagine today, but there was a time when a flight from Berlin to New York took 17 hours. But the technological leaps have made flying not only faster but also more comfortable, quieter and more economical, with significant impacts also on the route network, on crews and, of course, the technicians on the ground. That’s why today we travel back to the milestones, to where such leaps have occurred in the timelines of Lufthansa, and we look at which criteria are decisive today for the, so to speak, fleet or aircraft fleet. What logistical challenges are behind a modern fleet strategy? We discussed this with a former fleet chief and an expert from today’s fleet management. Welcome to ‘Above and Beyond’, Carl Sigel and Nils Lewe.

[CS] Good day.

[NL] Good day.

[AH] My name is Anja Heyde. I am a freelance journalist and presenter, and I will guide you through the second season of the Lufthansa Airlines podcast. Mr Sigel, let’s start with you. You joined Lufthansa at the end of the 1960s and stayed for 41 years. Do I have that right?

[CS] Yes. I started flight school exactly on the 1st of November 1966.

[AH] First as a co-pilot, then...?

[CS] No. First, I was at the flight school for two years.

[AH] Sure, but then...

[CS] And then afterwards co-pilot, 737. After the 737, I got on the Jumbo 747 as a co-pilot and then became a captain in ’76.

[AH] But you were, of course, also on the Airbus A320 later on?

[CS] I introduced the A320 at Lufthansa as the fleet chief. Looking back, it was one of the most interesting projects I have ever done.

[AH] That’s why you are here today and that’s why we will naturally talk about it. You are general representative, head of operations and chief operating officer of Lufthansa Airlines. You have been retired since 2008. Do you still fly, or do you just let others fly now?

[CS] No. I no longer fly and only rarely let others fly.

[AH] What do you do instead?

[CS] Oh, I have a lot of free time. As a retiree, I travel one way or another. I ride my bicycle a lot, I play golf, I sail very much – I have my own ship. And every year I’m travelling around the Mediterranean for about ten weeks. And then I have a big family with three children and six grandchildren. So, I’m occupied.

[AH] Mr Lewe, you are a pilot first officer for the A320, but your path to the cockpit wasn’t exactly straightforward, I would say. How did you get into flying?

[NL] Right, exactly. So, I really got into aviation due to my family background. I’ve always been somewhat connected to flying as I am from this region where I grew up. And that means the Frankfurt Airport and also Lufthansa were always present. I also come from a classic Lufthansa family, so to speak, and wanted to do something with aviation early on, but first went a bit into the business management track, did a dual study programme at Lufthansa, and then afterwards, while I was already working in an office job at Lufthansa, I applied for pilot training – was accepted there. And then a few years later, I actually went to the commercial pilot school in Bremen and completed the pilot training there.

[AH] And can you imagine not flying anymore at some point, like Mr Sigel?

[NL] I haven’t been flying for very long, so it’s not really on my radar yet. But I do know that flying is an absolute passion for pilots. And stopping flying is indeed a very emotional topic that affects everyone individually when they have their last flight. However, I believe it really depends on the person.

[AH] You are recently also the executive assistant to the CTO of Lufthansa Airlines and thus responsible for fleet management, meaning the aircraft purchasing from Airbus and Boeing. What would you actually say? How does your job today differ from that of Carl Sigel back then?

[NL] So, related to aviation, I believe a lot has happened, and I think Carl Sigel made significantly greater leaps in his career, regarding technological advancements in flying and changes in the interface between humans and machines. A lot happened in the decades between 1960 and 1990 and, compared to today, it was a greater dynamic. That means, as a pilot, you had to bring a lot of willingness to change. I myself grew up on the A320, so to speak, on the last generation, which has already undergone some developments. A lot has happened in the last 20, 30 years. But actually, I would say it’s still an aircraft that is technologically very advanced, very modern and brings a lot with it. Regarding fleet management and fleet introduction, I believe it is similar in many ways, although different in its characteristics. Ultimately, as a company, we always face the challenge of preparing the business and building the organisation for a new aircraft. That means training the crews, setting up the internal processes, whether from ground handling to the technology to the actual flying. This is all very challenging, especially when it is an aircraft of a new category like the A380, or when it brings completely different technological principles.

[AH] Well, without aeroplanes, everything is nothing at Lufthansa. As I said today, we are looking at the early aviators, the new beginning of the fleet after the Second World War and the start of the jet age. And thus, inevitably, at the two giants in the aircraft business, the manufacturers Boeing and Airbus. And we explore the question of what the fleet of the future must look like. But first, let’s look back at a decisive year for Lufthansa.

[AH] On the 16th of September 1960, a band played in the maintenance hangar for jet aircraft, the overture to Handel’s Music for the Royal Fireworks and the then governing mayor of Berlin and later federal chancellor Willy Brandt christened one of the first two Lufthansa Boeing aircraft with a bottle of German sparkling wine, naming it ‘Berlin’. The other one, by the way, was named after the partner city, ‘Frankfurt’. Colleagues from Sender Freies Berlin, the SFB, were also on site for a television report. We dug something up.

[VO] Around 500 guests from the aviation and tourism industries, the Hessian state government and Frankfurt authorities, diplomats and media representatives gathered in the morning of this 16th of September 1960 in front of the large maintenance hangar for jet aircraft at Frankfurt's Rhein-Main Airport, to attend the christening of the first two Lufthansa Boeing 707 aircraft. The governing mayor of Berlin, Willy Brandt, is greeted enthusiastically, reports the magazine Der Lufthanseat. He is only on site for one and a half hours. After that, he returns to West-Berlin, the city that is currently in such a difficult political situation. Willy Brandt addresses this in his christening speech, acknowledging not only that the two airplanes are to be named Frankfurt and Berlin, but also the close German-American friendship. The broadcaster Sender Freies Berlin records the speech:

[WB] Ich freue mich wirklich darüber, dass an diesem Tag und bei dieser Namensgebung die freundschaftliche Verbindung zwischen Frankfurt und Berlin so schön unterstrichen wird. Dieses Flugzeug, das den Namen ‚Berlin‘ tragen wird, wird von hier aus sich nach New York bewegen, in die Vereinigten Staaten von Amerika. Und das hat etwas zu tun mit der Lage, in der sich die durch mich vertretene Stadt jetzt befindet. Es hat etwas zu tun mit der Lösung der Schwierigkeiten, die noch vor uns liegen.

[VO] The christening is carried out “with a bottle of German sparkling wine”, as mentioned in Der Lufthanseat. The governing Mayor Brandt sprinkles the nose of the Boeing 707 and says the following words:

[WB] Ich gebe dir den Namen ‚Berlin‘ und wünsche dir Gottes Segen!

[VO] The band plays to the applause of the guests, and while the guests are still having a snack, Willy Brandt returns to his city, which will experience the construction of the Berlin Wall just a few months later.

[AH] You both were not there, not back then. When you joined Lufthansa, the Boeing 707, Mr Sigel had already been in operation for a few years, and the start of the jet age had thus already begun. What did your older colleagues tell you back then? How did they receive the new technology?

[CS] Well, I flew with many of the old gentlemen back then, when I was still co-pilot on the Jumbo, who all started with a 707, flew a jet for the first time, and I’m just on long-haul flights. When you’re on the road at night for hours, you talk. Now, I don’t have a problem with communication, and so I actually learned a lot from the old gentlemen for my life.

[AH] And the new Lufthansa started its scheduled operations on the 1st of April 1955. But back then, still with propeller planes, it began with just four Convair planes in April 1955 on the Hamburg–Munich route, and then, among others, the Lockheed Super Constellation and the Lockheed Super Star were added. What was the difference compared to the pre-war propeller planes?

[CS] They were much more modern than these machines, and I was lucky back then at flight school – I came from the Stuttgart area, flight school was in Bremen. We often flew home on weekends. That’s how I got to know the Convair. When I flew along, I was allowed to go into the cockpit. And the first impressive thing for me was flying from Frankfurt to Stuttgart with the ‘Superconnie’, the four-engine aircraft. I was sitting back there on the jump seat watching, and there was such a narrow runway in front, with such a big aeroplane and I thought, “I’ll never learn that.” But then we landed properly and it was my only and first experience with the Superconnie. And later, with the 707, when we were at flight school in America, we flew from Frankfurt to Chicago with the 707, but I hadn’t flown the aircraft myself until then.

[AH] So then we jump to the year 1960. That’s when it was the time the Boeing 707 arrived. What did that mean for ongoing operations?

[CS] Well, there were other possibilities. There were many more direct routes. The range was greater. We could build the route network quite differently than before with the propeller planes, with the Superconnie on long-haul routes, you could fly almost anywhere directly. It was faster and more effective.

[AH] And there is a completely new aeroplane being introduced, with completely new technology. What does that mean for technology for the crew? So, Mr Lewe, you hinted at it earlier in a different dimension, what it means when you suddenly have to deal with new technology.

[NL] I think the beginning of the jet age was marked by a significant structural change for the entire industry. On one hand, not only did the size of the aircraft change, and the propulsion technology, but also the infrastructure requirements. So, airports had to be designed differently. There were certainly longer runways that had to be built and expanded. And I think the whole industry was somewhat in this spirit of optimism and contributed to making flying a mass phenomenon, because that is ultimately what we owe, for example, to the Boeing 707 as an aircraft with relatively high passenger capacity compared to previous propeller planes – it ultimately brought flying to the masses.

[AH] Had either of you ever flown a plane before this time? Like a propeller plane, for example?

[CS] Only at the flight school.

[AH] Oh. All right, what kind of one?

[CS] Yes. We also had propeller planes, single engine and twin engine.

[AH] Of course, I’m not asking for nothing. We’ve been digging in the archives and took a look at the beginnings of commercial aviation and the machines pre-war Lufthansa flew. We asked the historian Dr Manfred Grieger.

[VO] Even though the pioneering years of the daring men with their flying biplane crates made of wood and fabric were already over, the early Lufthansa machines were still uncomfortable, converted airplanes from the First World War. The merger of Deutsche Aero Lloyd and Junkers Luftverkehr AG in 1926 to form the first German Lufthansa occurred due to economic competition and government pressure and resulted in a diverse Lufthansa fleet, explains social and economic historian Dr. Manfred Grieger:

[MG] From Albatros to Bayerische Flugzeugwerke to Dornier, very different models with all the problems that arise from that. You have a huge effort to ensure continuous operation, the repair, the training of the pilots. Most were already trained because some of the planes were still ones that had already flown in the First World War and so had the pilots. And afterwards, there was really the problem that such World War pilots were not willing to be trained anymore because they thought they were already air heroes.

[VO] No more than four to six people did fit in these planes. A larger scale of civil aviation was far off. Flying back then not only cost a lot of money but also required courage and a strong stomach.

[MG] That was uncomfortable. It was also partly unsafe. That is, the number of what Lufthansa calls ‘external landings’, or if you will, emergency landings, was quite high, especially with single-engine aircraft, as the engines and other technical facilities were not particularly reliable yet. So, in that respect, it was also somewhat more of an adventure than really comfort.

[VO] The Junkers F-13 was the first all-metal commercial aircraft worldwide. By the mid-1920ies, it already accounted for 40 percent of global air traffic. Traveling through the air became more comfortable and safer, although by no means affordable for everyone. But at least the durability of these airplanes was significantly higher, says Manfred Grieger.

[MG] Loading capacity, aerodynamics, and other elements were significantly more favorable, which also allowed the range to be increased. In the first version, the pilots still had to sit outside, but in the end, these were essentially aircraft where all passengers and also the pilots were in the cabin and thus much better protected from wind and cold. The seats were gradually improved, so it was no longer an adventurous ordeal, but business aircraft became possible, and relatively quickly, regular flight services began, where people from Berlin or other cities could fly to the Baltic or North Sea.

[VO] But Lufthansa also made technological progress. Multi-engine aircraft like the Ju 52, known as ‘Aunt J’, reduced the risk of engine failure and increased the flight range.

[MG] So with the transition to multi-engine airplanes, for example with Rohrbach, but especially with the Ju 52, which was to become the standard airplane of the German Lufthansa, the three-engine aircraft was an important step in actually gaining range and safety. At the same time, these larger aircraft had more interior space, so they could carry more passengers and accommodate them more comfortably. Now it's about there being ten or more. Individual planes could already do this since the late 1920s, but the significant expansion of capacities really happened with the Junkers 90, which were only built in small numbers, then with the Ju 52, and later with the Focke-Wulf 200.

[VO] On-board radar and radio navigation changed the appearance of the cockpit and enabled flights in poor visibility, nighttime flights, and even the first non-stop transcontinental flights, although these served no purpose other than prestige. Nevertheless, with the transition to multi-engine airplanes and larger passenger cabins, comfort also improved positively.

[MG] In addition to more stable seats, also adjustable seats, the service for the passengers was introduced, so they could get something to drink, and later on, in the mid-1930s, even something to eat on board, including hot meals. The second point was that the flight performance, the smoother flight position, significantly increased the comfort for passengers sensitive to turbulence. And the last point: Everything became much more punctual.

[VO] Ultimately, the development of the fleet was also a military concern. Revisionist circles in the German Reich used civil aviation to circumvent the provisions of the Treaty of Versailles and to provide the Reichswehr with a kind of ‘hidden’ air force.

[MG] Lufthansa already played a role in military planning in the 1920s during the Weimar Republic, if you will, as a sort of makeshift bomber. This was then significantly expanded in connection with the Ju 52. The company itself was also intensively involved in the development of new aircraft models with its airship yards and development departments, in the testing of instruments and other matters, so this state-owned enterprise, in which the German Reich and the states had a large shareholding, actually became an instrument of armament. However, it must be added that with the development of the German Air Force after 1935, the military role of Lufthansa declined.

[VO] With the end of the war, the Allies finally prohibited the Germans from civil aviation until a new Deutsche Lufthansa was established.

[AH] So, when you hear it like that, you are quite glad to be flying in today’s times. But before we reach today’s comfort, there have been some technological boosts. We had stopped at the Boeing 707. Mr Sigel, you experienced several of these technological leaps yourself. Among them was the Boeing 737 and, in 1989, the Airbus A320. And that was another huge leap, a major upheaval for Lufthansa, but possibly also for you personally, or for the pilots.

[CS] Well, I experienced that first-hand with the 737, and we had a technological leap then – firstly, the newer engines and then, during my time as fleet chief, we introduced the glass cockpit for the first time. And that was another technological leap towards modern technology.

[AH] What was the difference?

[CS] The difference was simply that we had a lot of information on a larger screen, where before we had many different instruments and we could pack in as much information as possible. That was basically the foundation on which the new aircraft, like the Airbus A320, were later built on the screen technology.

[AH] So 1989, the A320. What was it about this aeroplane? I mean, you were basically the one responsible for introducing it to the fleet. What was different about this aeroplane?

[CS] The aeroplane was actually completely different from anything we had before – we had fly by wire. Previously, all signals were transmitted through cables and various means. Hydraulics. Today everything is electronic. We had a side stick and had completely different safety parameters built into the aeroplane. And so, it was a very challenging task to build up this fleet, both from the pilot side, because there were also many sceptics who were not 100% convinced by the new technology and said that everything was better in the past. But we managed that quite well. I had built a team of check and training captains around me, and I believe we made the A320 a success.

[AH] But how long did it take until all the pilots were retrained, until it was at the point where you could say, “Okay, now we have everything in the bag”?

[CS] That went relatively quickly. We always did normal training, simulator training, and then flight training with the first ones. With the check and training captain, we flew to Malta or somewhere, or to Paphos. We were often in Cyprus and there we flew in circles for a few days and trained everyone. And that was very important at the beginning, because people, when they had the controls before, always felt like they had to fiddle with something. And with the side stick, you only touch it when you want to change the flight attitude. Then they can basically let go. Especially the long-established pilots who have been flying for 22, 25 years, training them on the new technology was quite a challenge.

[AH] So, after all – because it sounded a bit like everything was just going through.

[CS] Yes, when you have managed all that, then it was an incredibly pleasant aircraft.

[NL] The exciting thing is that nowadays this is still a cultural topic in aviation and among pilots. So, there are often colleagues who say they are more Boeing pilots and colleagues who are more Airbus pilots. So, this cultural aspect has not been completely overcome, even after 40 years since the introduction of the A320. It depends, of course, on the fact that our training still starts conventionally. So, it’s still the case that at flight school, you learn to fly with stick and radar, as they say, in the sense of manually, with simple instruments and actually a direct control of the control surfaces. And only later in the course of training, when the final model is determined, does one ultimately decide on an aircraft type, and then either get trained on the Airbus A320, for example, or on other models like the Boeing 737.

[CS] If I may add something: when you see the new technology in the 320, you might often think as a layperson that you have to be a computer geek to fly the aircraft. That’s not true. If you don’t have the feeling in your gut, then you can’t fly a 320 well. So, the flying instinct …

[AH] … this remains. And, Mr Lewe, nevertheless, the question again: What is it today? So, the difference [from] the A320 was, of course, a huge leap as well. And if you introduce a new aircraft today, introduce a new aircraft model. Are the challenges still the same?

[NL] I think, for the pilots, the introduction of a new model or learning a new model is an exciting and also challenging time. I think, if you compare it with the introduction of the A320, there haven’t been such leaps in recent years. However, I’m convinced that such a leap is indeed ahead of us in the coming years or the next decade, because aircraft manufacturers are already working on new categories of aircraft models, and there is certainly further development potential there. Otherwise, one can generally say nowadays, when switching from one aircraft model to another from the same manufacturer, the degree of change is not quite as significant.

[AH] Unless it’s a giant aeroplane. And now I’m talking about the A380. Why was the A380’s run so short?

[NL] That’s a good question. Well, I can only speculate. I think, personally, I was a big fan of the Airbus A380 and believe that it was perhaps just a bit ahead of its time in the industry, because you have to imagine it like this: the development of such a large aircraft with two full decks and around 500 passengers, that requires a certain market situation, a certain demand, but also certain circumstances that make it necessary to operate such a large aircraft at all. And at the beginning of the 2000, end of the ’90s, that was the case in aviation. We often had capacity bottlenecks at airports, so-called take-off and landing rights slots, as we call them. They were rather scarce, especially in larger metropolitan areas like London Heathrow, New York JFK, et cetera. As an airline, you sometimes couldn’t fly twice a day with your long-haul aircraft, for example, because you only had a few take-off and landing rights. And that’s where the A380 came into play. Because the A380 essentially stacked the capacity of two aircraft. And, as an airline, it was then possible to transport more passengers in one aircraft, and this unique feature of the aircraft was quite interesting and attractive for many large airlines that also operate in a so-called ‘hub’, like Lufthansa does with Frankfurt and Munich. It had only one disadvantage: it was a four-engine aircraft, and the engine technology then changed just around the 2010 years, when the 380 just came onto the market, in such a way that they managed to make the engine so powerful, a single engine so powerful that you only need two. And the 380 came onto the market as a four-engine aircraft. And I think that was ultimately, when looking at operating costs, a reason why it could not be established on the market for so long.

[AH] What were the criteria back then, but also today, when purchasing a fleet? What criteria are used?

[CS] Initially it was the size – the jet age, when it came with the 737 boom at the beginning, there was no alternative. Airbus didn’t exist yet. And that’s why they went in the direction of Boeing. But in the meantime, Airbus had also built very good jets. And I also think it’s quite good that there is healthy competition, because if we only had one manufacturer, we would probably pay significantly higher prices, and the tickets would be much more expensive than today. And this way you can actually play one manufacturer against the other. And I often experienced this – in all the negotiations where we purchased the aeroplanes, we had a very clever engineer from Hamburg who always understood very well how to play the manufacturers against each other, and we were really able to implement what we thought was right. And that’s why it’s always healthy to have competition, especially for us as buyers.

[AH] Does it make a difference today if you have a central order?

[NL] So, I think that is still a significant factor today. Ultimately, as an airline, you want to have the option to choose when it comes to aircraft orders. And I think maintaining the balance between the two major manufacturers is still an essential goal. One must see [that], in other markets, there are significantly more providers – in the automotive industry, et cetera – we are already very concentrated in aviation with this duopoly, if you will. That is still Embraer as a regional manufacturer, which should not be overlooked. But ultimately it is certainly a criterion also for fleet purchasing decisions. However, there are of course others as well.

[AH] You called it a duopoly, Mr Lewe, between Boeing and Airbus? I read that the A320 became a nightmare for American aviation because it developed into such a bestseller, because it was so incredibly innovative at that time. Has anything changed in this duopoly?

[NL] Conditionally, well, I believe the A320 certainly and should on short-haul routes that Boeing was no longer a monopolist [of], so to speak, during that time, and took away a lot of business. Boeing has tried over the last years and decades to catch up, and has always brought out new generations, and Airbus does the same with their A320 model. So when we receive the A320 today, we’re not talking about the aircraft we received in 1989, but rather about different generations of the model that have developed over the years. And the two newest models – both from the A320 and the Boeing 737 – they are technologically similar, at least when you look at, let’s say, the economic metrics like range, fuel costs, efficiency, et cetera. But Boeing then naturally had to give up a lot to Airbus. And you must not overlook the competition from outside. So, there are always initiatives from other parts of the world to build their own narrow-body aircraft, whether in China or in Russia. And we also have the regional aircraft manufacturers, who are also continuously evolving into the segment of larger narrow-body aircraft like the A320 and the 737, such as Embraer, who are also established in the market.

[AH] When a company or corporation makes such a decision for a manufacturer, for a specific aircraft type, for an aircraft model, it’s a far-reaching decision. How far-reaching? How long are they in operation?

[CS] Yes. If you think about it, the 737 still exists today. It was introduced in the 1960s. Of course, with ever more modern variants. it has evolved, but the basic model is still flying today and has been around for 60 years now.

[NL] Yes, I can confirm that. So, it’s certainly something for the future that one must always keep in mind that the development cycles in the industry are also very long. On the one hand, it takes relatively long until a new aircraft model – really an entirely new category – has been developed and introduced. It takes years of engineering work, testing, certification, et cetera, before it is ready for delivery. And on the other hand, aeroplanes today fly for a good 20, 30 years – at least 20 years actually in passenger service – then usually several more years in cargo service. That means such an aeroplane, once it has been manufactured, can fly well for 20, 30 if not even 40 years in the future. The decisions made today are ultimately decisions for 2040, 2050.

[AH] But what does that mean in a time when regulations – if we look at climate requirements, new fuels, et cetera – might change again, and perhaps change quickly?

[NL] I think that is a significant factor – also an aspect for future fleet decisions, the issue of economic efficiency and thus also sustainability. A lot has changed in recent years. Fuel efficiency has increased enormously, also through the modernisation of existing aircraft models. So, let’s take the A320 as an example again. The latest model, the A320 Neo, has had new engines installed which has allowed for significant fuel savings. Ultimately, however, it is the case that an airline can only operate within a certain framework and, since these decisions are so long term, a fleet modernisation can only be a significant aspect of a portfolio of measures, I would say, to also increase sustainability.

[AH] If you had to look into the future, what would the fleet of the future look like?

[CS] The question is very difficult. I don’t have a crystal ball at hand, but I suspect that we will have the variety with Boeing and with Airbus. The competition will be there. The machines, as we said before, in my opinion will not be too large. The A380 was not exactly a success model. It was simply too large and uneconomical on many routes. Point-to-point traffic will continue to dominate as long as, firstly, the airspace is available and the slots at the airports. That will probably be the limiting factor.

[NL] I think the future fleet structure will also be dominated mainly by twin-engine aircraft because technological advancements, especially in recent years and also in the future, lie in triplex technology, meaning in the engines. And we clearly see the development towards twin-engine machines. I think, speaking also for an airline, the future focus is primarily on simplifying the fleet. Here too, it is important to recognise, especially when you have been in business for several decades like the Lufthansa Group, that you naturally have existing aircraft that you continue to operate economically, but some of which will also be phased out in the near future. I think, a key in a future fleet structure is mainly to have a simple fleet which ultimately allows us to act flexibly in the market.

[AH] Thank you very, very much for this small time-travel through the Lufthansa fleet from its beginnings until today.

[CS] We also thank you. It was fun. It was a relaxed atmosphere, and I was happy to come.

[NL] Thank you very much.

[AH] And in our upcoming episode, it’s about the small and large crises that Lufthansa has gone through in its history. When you exist for 100 years, you experience pretty much everything during that time. How were natural disasters, pandemics, or human tragedies handled? How are daily minor incidents managed before they become a crisis? And what exactly does the so-called SAT team do? All of this will concern us in the next episode of ‘Above and Beyond’. I bid you farewell. In life as in an aeroplane, stay stable and arrive safely. Until next time.

[VO] That was Above and Beyond—the podcast of Lufthansa Airlines. More insights into aviation will be available in the next episode. And for those who don't want to wait that long, follow our Instagram channel lufthansaviews. As always, you can find all the links in the show notes.