Ash, fear, and a state of emergency: What an airline learns from crises

[KF] What is extremely deeply rooted in this company, is the sense of responsibility. That successful crisis management begins well before the crisis, paired with the attitude and the energy, and perhaps also the will to handle it responsibly, to get out of it and to learn – those are the forces that drive us.

[HB] The crises naturally mark turning points with significant economic, but also psychological consequences. However, it almost always succeeds in leaving these crises behind relatively quickly.

[VO] Above and Beyond—the podcast by Lufthansa Airlines. For insights into aviation.

[AH] In April 2010, all of Europe learned the name of an Icelandic volcano, but hardly anyone could pronounce it. I apologise right away for trying it now. The Eyjafjallajökull. It was quite an entertaining spectacle in the media, but not for air traffic. You might already guess where the journey is heading in today’s episode of ‘Above and Beyond’. It’s about the crises that Lufthansa has gone through, and when you turn 100 years old, you’ve experienced quite a few of them. The most catastrophic, we all agree, was the Second World War, which ultimately also meant the end of the first German Lufthansa. But the newly founded Lufthansa has also gone through some lows – terrorist attacks, natural disasters, pandemics or even human tragedies, often with severe economic consequences. Now, with companies, as with people, there is no life without crisis. The question is how do you deal with them? And above all, what do you learn from them? Because anyone who has experienced a crisis knows that handling it well ensures that I am stronger afterward – more resilient, if you will. Questions that we want to address in this episode of ‘Above and Beyond’ with the historian Professor Hartmut Berghoff from the University of Göttingen. Welcome.

[HB] Good day, Miss Heyde.

[AH] And with Klaus Froese. He is the chief operating officer of Lufthansa Airlines, a safety pilot and an experienced crisis management leader. A warm welcome to you as well.

[KF] Good day, Miss Heyde.

[AH] My name is Anja Heyde and I am pleased to have you back on board. Welcome, Mr Froese. How many crises have you experienced at Lufthansa?

[KF] It probably depends on how you define a crisis. It feels like infinitely many. Sometimes you might elevate one internal issue or another to a crisis. Of the really big ones, maybe three or four.

[AH] And for how many were you the crisis manager?

[KF] In the strict definition of the crisis manager, in the role of the official crisis manager, honestly, in none. But in the roles I performed during these crises, one was always also a crisis manager and tried to steer one’s own area or even the company through the crisis.

[AH] We will hear more shortly. Mr Berghoff, you are a professor of economic and social history at the University of Göttingen, and today you are, so to speak, our satellite looking down on the company. You have written an academic paper on Lufthansa, titled “Lufthansa between the Berlin Republic and the World Market”. How did you come to write about this company at this particular time?

[HB] Well, Lufthansa is, if you will, a systemically important company in the Federal Republic. It’s an incredibly diverse and exciting company. And of course, it is also very large, right? It is, measured by revenue, the largest airline group in Europe. So, in that respect, it is simply an important company. And it is very, very exciting for a scientist to engage with it. And then next year, in 2026, we have the 100th anniversary. And that is, of course, also an occasion to look back.

[AH] And what sources did you delve into?

[HB] Of various kinds. So, from protocols, from committee meetings, published business reports. But I also conducted many interviews with contemporary witnesses. That was almost the most valuable, the personal recollection. But, of course, a corporation like Lufthansa produces an incredible amount of paper where you can look things up. There are internal magazines where a lot happens, where there are letters to the editor from employees. So, quite a bit comes together.

[AH] Yes, there is an entire archive. There’s also an episode of ‘Above and Beyond’ about it. What role did the crisis of Lufthansa play in the treatise?

[HB] Well, the crisis naturally marked turning points with significant economic but also psychological consequences. However, it actually always manages – which I find fascinating – to leave these crises behind relatively quickly. So there are no long-term trend breaks, but the growth of Lufthansa and air traffic overall is phenomenal in the long run, and there is no trend reversal. But there are such interruptions and then the long growth trend actually continues.

[AH] Then let’s take a look at a small news collage to see what has happened to Lufthansa over the past decades.

[Male Voice] Hier ist das deutsche Fernsehen mit der Tagesschau.

[Male Voice] Guten Abend, meine Damen und Herren. Die Geiseln an Bord der entführten Lufthansa-Maschine sind befreit und wieder zurück in der Bundesrepublik. Beim Sturm auf die Maschine in Mogadischu durch eine deutsche Spezialeinheit wurden drei Terroristen getötet und eine Luftpiratin angeschossen. Fast alle Passagiere und Besatzungsmitglieder blieben unverletzt.

[Male Voice] Kurz vor 9 Uhr Ortszeit in New York. Ein US-Passagierflugzeug stürzt auf einen der Türme des World Trade Centers. Wenig später rast eine zweite Maschine in den anderen Turm. Gegen 10 Uhr stürzt ein Flugzeug auf das Gelände des Pentagon in Washington.

[Female Voice] In Deutschland und anderen europäischen Ländern hat die Aschewolke nach dem Vulkanausbruch in Island zu Chaos im Flugverkehr geführt.

[Female Voice] Der Vulkan sorgt für Schlagzeilen und Warteschlangen. Auch auf dem Flughafen Düsseldorf. Seit heute Morgen geht hier nichts mehr, genauso wie auf den Flughäfen Köln-Bonn und Münster-Osnabrück.

[Female Voice] Die Ermittlungen zur Flugzeugkatastrophe in Südfrankreich haben eine dramatische Wendung genommen. Nach Erkenntnissen der französischen Staatsanwaltschaft hat der Copilot die Germanwings-Maschine absichtlich gegen das Bergmassiv gesteuert. Ermittelt wird weiterhin in alle Richtungen, auch ob der 27-Jährige psychische Probleme hatte.

[Female Voice] Lufthansa erwartet auch für die Zeit nach der Pandemie einen deutlichen Nachfragerückgang bei Flugreisen. Derzeit verhandelt das Unternehmen mit der Bundesregierung über mögliche Staatshilfen.

[AH] These were excerpts from [the German news programme] Tagesschau about the hijacking of the Lufthansa plane ‘Landshut’, the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and the ash clouds of the unpronounceable Icelandic volcano, up to the corona pandemic. So over four decades of crises with sometimes serious consequences. Mr Berghoff, you already mentioned that these crises never really harmed Lufthansa. They were always just small dents. How has Lufthansa fared in crises?

[HB] Well, I wouldn’t say that it didn’t harm Lufthansa. Those are, of course, economic setbacks that are very clearly reflected in the balance sheets of the respective years. So you sometimes have to reduce air traffic, you have to adjust capacities. These are highly complex processes. And in my observation, they have learned from it and are doing it better. Mr Froese will certainly be able to confirm that. So, with 9/11, it was also the case that it had to be done practically within hours, right? During corona, it developed over weeks. So I would be interested, Mr Froese, in how you actually do it. Do you still somehow sleep, or what happens then?

[KF] Sleep generally falls short during such mega crises as you mentioned. You are certainly right about that. But first, one must certainly say that we have extensive process descriptions based on experience – you’re right about that too – which first outline the basics of what needs to be done now. The first thing I would say is why – as you say, Professor Birkhoff – we got through it quite well. That it is not the result of the processes as we formulate them, but first of all, a question of attitude. What is extremely deeply rooted in this company, in my observation, is the sense of responsibility for what one does, and especially, of course, for our guests. And from this attitude comes not only the energy, but also the concrete actions and the courage to push these things forward. That’s one thing, and the other is that we have learned from the crises of the decades, plural, that successful crisis management begins well before the crisis. So, without being fundamentally prepared for the crisis – and I already mentioned the diversity of the processes – it doesn’t work. You cannot make thousands of detailed decisions in the situation without a guiding principle or, as I say, without a railing to hold onto – it must be well prepared. But that, paired with the attitude and the energy, and perhaps also the will to handle it responsibly, to get out of it and to learn – those are the forces that drive us.

[AH] I will start with the learning, namely, very early in 1977, Mr Berghof, 20 years before your investigation period. But still back then, Palestinian terrorists hijacked the Lufthansa plane ‘Landshut’, [and took it] on an odyssey, if you will – ultimately to Mogadishu. The goal was to extort the release of RAF [Rote Armee Fraktion/Red Army Faction] terrorists in Germany. The pilot was shot. The then new special unit, GSG 9, eventually freed all the passengers. That was not only a state crisis and a trauma for the hostages, but also a tragedy and a trauma for Lufthansa. Can you, from your historical understanding, say what impact that had on security concepts?

[HB] There’s a lot of talk about Mogadishu. But in 1972 there was also a Lufthansa plane hijacking right after the attack on the Olympic Games. The three surviving attackers who were imprisoned, were also supposed to be extorted for release. And then there was also a rescue. Strangely, this case is not talked about as much as Mogadishu. Of course, the security measures were massively increased afterward because there was also an announcement from the RAF. They said, because somehow terrorists were shot, “We must take revenge for that. And for every RAF person killed, we will blow up a Lufthansa plane.” That was a very clear announcement. And, as a result, there was also a drop in booking numbers. And many people said, “Well, then we’ll fly with British Airways” and so on. But even there, that lasted a few months and then it was back to normal operations. But, of course, Lufthansa did a lot and the security checks were increased. Some things happened there. I mean, it’s just that the psychological shock was very big because it affected so many people, because it was a state crisis and because there was a crisis team at Lufthansa. But there was also a crisis team of the Bonn government. These two crisis teams didn’t work well together. And the Lufthansa crisis team tried, for example, to communicate with the offices in Mogadishu. But there weren’t enough telephone lines. There were all sorts of logistical problems. And I also believe that lessons were learned from this to be better prepared in the future.

[AH] Now, you may possibly remember images regarding ‘Landshut’ back then, but most certainly here in the room and also people outside at their devices remember very well where they were on September 11th 2001 – the terrorist attacks with aeroplanes on the Twin Towers in New York and the Pentagon in Washington, and the other crash – they have left a very, very deep impression. I still remember it. Mr Froese, where were you during 9/11?

[KF] Yes, I do indeed know that very, very well. It was September. I was sailing or learning to sail, in Mallorca at a sailing school. My wife was there in this home base, in a restaurant, and I was just coming back from sailing, and she came toward me, tears streaming down her face, and said ‘Something really, really terrible has happened’. And then there were the televisions mounted on the ceiling, and I saw… I don’t even know if it was live or already a replay, how the second plane flew into the second tower. But indeed, as you say, it is very, very well remembered by me.

[AH] Could you still …When you think about crises, right, can you still continue like that? I mean, can you still stay in Mallorca and say don’t you want to leave?

[KF] You can’t continue. I believe we indeed left two or three days later because, regardless of the job, I think many of us felt that something truly – and this is not an exaggeration – something world-changing happened there, and everyone had to find their own way of dealing with it. And there was just a sense of anticipation about what would happen next.

[AH] Mr Berghoff, after 9/11, the US airspace was closed for four days. So flight diversions, returns and stranded passengers, of course. Also at Lufthansa. How did the company react?

[HB] They immediately convened the crisis team. Also a plane was sent with, I believe, 60 people and with relief supplies, because many planes were stranded in Newfoundland, you know, and that was a huge problem. So, how do you accommodate the people? There weren’t that many hotels – they had to go to gymnasiums. But there were also on board pregnant women, small children. One needed diapers, one needed medication. So, Lufthansa sent a team of 60 people consisting of doctors, psychologists, technicians and crisis helpers to Newfoundland. And then part of them went on to New York because people were stranded everywhere. As you rightly said, Mr Froese, no one knew how long it would actually last.

[AH] That’s the crazy thing, because what does a crisis team do in such a situation, as you said? Sure, successful crisis management begins before the crisis, but you can’t really prepare for something like this.

[KF] In certain matters you can. First and foremost in crisis management is to recognise and avert further dangers. Have we understood the crisis in its entirety, or is there more to come? And the next thing – or perhaps in this context – of course, is the protection of the body and soul of our guests, but also of our employees. And in third place, I would mention, how do you then steer the company through the crisis? How does it continue? And in this context, and this should not be underestimated, communication plays an outstanding role – communication that manages to be appropriately designed for the difficulty of the situation, takes into account the often associated suffering in this context, and still provides perspective to all involved. How does it continue now?

[AH] Then we’ll take a little break. Now comes my favourite volcano. In April 2010, there was a moment when nothing was happening in the sky, but there wasn’t much to see in the sky either because there was so much ash in the air. I’ll make one more attempt: Eyjafjallajökull, a volcano in Iceland, erupted and paralysed European air traffic for days. Lufthansa had to cancel 1000 flights, suffered significant revenue losses, which shows how vulnerable aviation is to such natural events. What impact did this have on Lufthansa and what lessons did the airline learn from it?

[HB] That’s, of course, something you can’t plan for, right? That happens to us so suddenly. And that would also be a question for Mr Froese. It was a bit controversial whether that was really an adequate measure, right? They took apart engines afterwards and didn’t find any particles and so on. So was that maybe also an overreaction, this measure? All of Europe, because this ash cloud was never that dense. Maybe we could have continued flying. I don’t know either.

[AH] But who would have wanted to take the risk?

[KF] No, but you are absolutely right. And I believe we have captured the essence of crisis management from our perspective at that time well. Because at the time of the event, and normally in crisis management, mastering the situation is always the primary focus, and dealing with causes naturally follows afterward. But from the beginning of this crisis, the question was whether what we were doing was really necessary. And that's why part of our activities, I must say, was focused on finding out, together with the manufacturers –especially the engine manufacturers – whether we really had to do it this way. And in the end we followed a directive, a regulation – if I remember correctly, we were more of the opinion that this extensive airspace closure was not necessary. From today’s perspective, we know that. And then crisis management continues. I haven’t mentioned that yet, especially in this type of crisis where no one has been immediately harmed or there is no tragedy to mourn. It’s very much about how do we ramp up our operations again? How do we organise our several hundred aircraft? In the group, we now have 800 aircraft. How do we manage that when they’re suddenly not where they’re supposed to be – the crews are no longer where they should be. Thousands and thousands of passengers are waiting somewhere to be picked up. And this, as we say, ‘ramping up’ the operation again is then a very, very important focus of our work.

[AH] How does that work when the crews are stranded somewhere in the whole country? Do you then transport them back and forth by train?

[KF] Sometimes by train, sometimes by car. And in such crises, the company – and especially our great employees – are sometimes very, very inventive… (in parentheses, you wouldn’t believe how a company pulls together in a crisis, and everyone gives their all and a lot of creativity arises), but every means of transport is allowed. And in our planning centres, traffic control centre, crew planning, no one goes home in such a crisis. How could that even work? Because every hand on deck is needed. Where are any of our 25,000 crew members right now? Nowadays we also work a lot with IT support, but the know-how of those who are here in the centre and the assistance of those who are outside in combination, we manage to handle it quite well. The sad truth is – by the way, keyword “strike” – we’re really good at that now.

[HB] I can only confirm that there is such a high identification with the company, and especially in crises, people really rise to the occasion. But when the crisis is over, then it doesn’t take long before the next strike comes, and then suddenly there are already relatively hard fronts. And then you experience a completely different togetherness, maybe more of an opposition. I don't know how you would explain that, Mr Froese. I found that very remarkable and also hard to explain.

[KF] You’re right about that. So this… I’ll say it positively: despite all the conflicts that arise again, in the end, there’s a huge sense of solidarity for this company and the great joint effort for our guests.

[AH] I’ll take a quick detour before we can talk about Covid again – about this great pandemic. Because before that, there was one of the most traumatic events for Lufthansa. That was the deliberately caused crash of a Germanwings plane. On March 24th 2015, the co-pilot of the Lufthansa subsidiary deliberately flew flight U9525 into a mountain massif in the French Alps. All 150 passengers died. Lufthansa also faced massive criticism, particularly due to the co-pilot’s psychological history. What were the consequences, Mr Froese?

[KF] The consequences were at first – sorry if I answer like this, it’s really not meant to be evasive – things happen that one cannot imagine. That’s how one must, I believe, say it. The consequences of this tragedy are of course varied and have once again shown the outstanding importance of our employees. The selection and training, which I personally believe is one of the essential pillars on which the entire company stands. Last but not least, due to the severity of the incident and the exceptional situation, we have learned a lot about ourselves in dealing with such crises and have adapted our procedures accordingly, even for situations that were truly unimaginable.

[AH] What was the learning, Mr Berghoff, from your perspective as well?

[HB] Well, the safety standards – that is, the question of pilots’ airworthiness. And those were already very high standards. But they have been, so to speak, further increased. So, I think there is a database set up so that pilots, when they went to different doctors, wouldn’t get a certificate from the third doctor saying they are fit to fly if the first two had refused it. So, a lot of details were adjusted to make it more difficult. But I think Mr Froese is absolutely right. In the end, such tragedies probably cannot be ruled out 100 per cent.

[KF] I have – I’m an active pilot – next week, my so-called medical. I have to go to the flight doctor. And there I have to answer questions also in writing that I did not have to answer before the Germanwings tragedy. It’s very much about… that is the result of government regulation at this point and the requirements of the legislator at this point, that the topic of mental stability has found much more inclusion in the general medical examination.

[AH] What can a company do in such a situation, not only for those affected, but also for the employees, because it is such a tragedy, not only for the relatives of the victims, but also for the employees who have to go through it.

[KF] Absolutely. Of course, it is very much about our guests, about the relatives. But our employees suffer a lot in such situations. By the way, it was the same with corona. And I believe the most important thing we can do at this point is to engage in conversation in some form and to be present, but staying in conversation is the most, most important thing. And even in a crisis, even in a tragedy, to be courageous in transparency and honesty, in the honesty and openness of the presentation [of] what happened, that builds trust and is of great reality, so to speak, for the public and for our employees in the internal public. That’s a learning, also for me personally, from the corona crisis, which lasted at least two years.

[AH] Without the active help of Lufthansa employees, many crises would not be manageable. Not just the big ones. Sometimes it’s also the small, let’s call them situations where passengers need help. Since the late 1990s, a so-called ‘Special Assistance Team’, abbreviated as ‘SAT’, has formed based on voluntary assistance. We spoke with two of these volunteer helpers from the Special Assistance Team, namely Beatriz Böhm and Carmen Luquero, and one of them was particularly challenged during the Germanwings crash in 2015.

[VO] The Special Assistance Team at Lufthansa – or SAT for short – is a special part of the company's emergency preparedness. Consisting of volunteer employees, it becomes active when the unexpected happens on the ground or on board, explains SAT member Carmen Luquero

[CL] The airlines are obligated to have a certain group of employees available in case of a crisis – and crisis can mean anything from something very small, like someone feeling unwell on board, to an aviation accident, stepping in to provide help and support to those affected, both passengers and relatives.

[VO] Initially established as the so-called ‘Care Team’, the Special Assistance Team has steadily grown over the years. With each new airline in the Lufthansa Group, more volunteers joined. Currently, there are around 3,200 helpers worldwide. With the Italian airline ITA, it will be almost 4,000. The half-Spanish Carmen Luquero has been involved from the beginning, first in the Care Team, then since its establishment in 1998 in the SAT. Her Spanish colleague Beatriz Böhm has been with Lufthansa for two years.

[BB] I heard about the SAT team and I remember applying immediately on the same day. For me, it was a very, very big attraction since I am employed by Lufthansa, so I informed myself. In recent years, I have reoriented my career and I wanted to work with people, be there for people, help. I worked for Caritas, especially with refugees, with families in emergency situations, also social backgrounds. And for me, it's primarily about just being there, being present, offering help to people, because there is a very, very high demand. And I keep noticing that it's not just a catastrophe, but also in the very small everyday situations there are people who are helpless.

[CL] I believe the motivation is the same for almost everyone. Anyone who imagines being in an emergency situation or has perhaps experienced it themselves is grateful when someone stands by their side, offers a hand, maybe takes over the thinking, and supports wherever possible. And when I heard about the Care Team back then, I immediately signed up.

[VO] Anyone who wants to help should know what they are getting into. Empathy is essential – but that alone is not enough. Anyone deployed in the SAT has been specially tested and trained for it beforehand.

[CL] I have absolutely no prior knowledge in psychological support or first aid, except for a driver's license, nothing like that at all. I am also very grateful that after a successful application and acceptance, you do receive support from SAT. There are trainings held regularly, where you get like a toolkit that you can use, so you can rely on such knowledge, which of course does not replace a psychology degree. It's not about providing psychological counselling to people, but about offering help, support, a hand to reach out, an ear to listen, tissues to offer, any form of support.

[BB] Empathy, calmness, patience, languages. So, it was also a huge motivation for me because, thanks to my languages, I can really help a lot of people and different cultures, and you are simply there.

[VO] In principle, all employees can apply. In initial interviews, the applicants undergo a psychological assessment.

[CL] How stable are you? Do you know your limits? Can you handle them? Can you withdraw yourself from such a situation? I believe that is actually difficult for some, because many want to help, but to withdraw from a situation and say, okay, here my assistance ends and now I return to everyday life, depending on the situation, depending on the incident, that can be quite challenging, especially if you have gotten quite close to those affected, particularly as a SAT member.

[BB] What is extremely important, in my opinion, is that you also know your own limits, that you really know what is coming your way, what you can offer. It is a tough thing in itself.

[VO] How challenging this assignment can be is especially evident in retrospect of the major crises. For Carmen Luquero, it was an event that accompanies her to this day.

[CL] That was German Wings and that was, of course, a major disaster. I took care of the relatives and had to pass on the latest information on that occasion. And I remember a day when I accompanied a Mexican family and on that day Lufthansa confirmed that the pilot committed suicide. And then I had to tell them that, and it's just ... phew. So you sit there and say, wow, how do I tell this? What I also want to say with that is, it's completely okay to have emotions. I mean, we're not robots, that would be terrible! And what I really received back from so, so many relatives, and this is something that strengthens and motivates you, is an incredible amount of gratitude and appreciation for something that you yourself see as, ‘My God, this is the least I can do, to stand by you in this situation!’ Experiencing so much gratitude, that's really … whew! You have to take a deep breath.

[AH] So, definitely an enriching but sometimes also emotionally very challenging activity that Beatriz Böhm and Carmen Luquero do, in addition to their own job at Lufthansa, as members of the SAT, the Special Assistance Team. Holger Thurm introduced us to the two. An unprecedented crisis of recent history, and at the same time the last one we want to highlight here today, because it has already been mentioned, is the corona pandemic in the years 2020 and ’21. During this time, you were the CEO of Lufthansa Airlines, Mr Froese. Can you still remember how it all started?

[KF] Absolutely. I first heard about the virus on the 2nd of January [2020] – a bit late, others much earlier – on the 2nd of January. And January was marked by us thinking a lot about our so-called China business. At the end of the month, the decision was made back then that we would no longer fly to China, and this scenario lasted internally for a few weeks. And then March came, and I remember it so well. It was the 12th of March 2020 that I stood at a large pilot event in our training centre in Seeheim, in front of many hundreds of employees, and described the consequences that resulted from us no longer flying to China. And then I hear myself saying at the end, ‘God help us if the American government declares us, Germany, a banned country.’ And the next morning at 06:00, I go into the bathroom and turn on the radio. And that was the case.

[AH] Was that the moment when you knew, ‘Uh-oh’?

[KF] And then, from that point on, I would say for a period of two weeks, we spent more or less all our time here in the company and initially reduced the entire operation permanently to, I believe, almost 1 per cent. We brought our crews home, tried to get our planes home and conducted evacuation flights. And that alone was very challenging. And I remember two things. On one hand, the team spirit and this almost incredible energy that was unleashed there. But also the question, how should this continue? Naturally, we talked a lot with the corporate board about it. What will this cost us and how long can we sustain this? And then it quickly became clear that we might be heading into an existential crisis. And I sat in a crisis meeting. It wasn’t about operational crises, but about how we handle the insolvency of Lufthansa. And that is an experience. And the insolvency application, so to speak, lay figuratively in the middle of the table. And I will never forget that in my life.

[AH] There’s no blueprint for something like that.

[KF] There’s no blueprint for something like this. If we linked arms and said, “We have to somehow do this, and what should we do?” Just sitting back with our hands in our laps is not an option.

[HB] And there was, I think, an admirable system in how they proceeded. It had two scenarios. So I believe there were two teams. One team prepared the insolvency and the other conducted negotiations with the federal government about aid programmes. And then in the end, it wasn’t entirely clear whether these aid programmes would be accepted by the shareholders. But everything was completely prepared, and I believe Mr Spohr had already set up an appointment with the bankruptcy judge. He would have gone there, but then the rescue package went through and they could continue with it.

[KF] But there … off the cuff, because there was no script for that. By the way, I can remember in this context the demonstration of our employees in front of our Lufthansa Aviation Centre, who fought for the survival of the company. Then the news came that Mr Kühne had agreed, and there’s help from the government. What do you think? How many tears were shed here? It was impressive.

[AH] Back to the spoiler from the beginning. Mr Berghoff, would you say Lufthansa has learned from the crisis and is prepared for everything that might come, which we don’t yet know about?

[HB] Yes, there would be a bit too much to say, because you don’t know what will come. And just because I think, as an outside observer, I have developed a great admiration for how crises were handled, how preparations were made, these learning processes. That’s already very, very impressive, a very great achievement. But you never know what is coming. Completely different things could still come at us, where possibly even these learning effects are no longer …

[KF] And mathematically, one would say, from what you are saying, which I support 100 per cent, you have to take the mathematical lead. Take the first derivative. We have to prepare for what we do not yet know. And that does not mean inactivity – that no longer exists. How can you act without knowing the concrete manifestation of the crisis? How do you make a company robust at first so it can absorb the disruption and then be resilient? How can it get back up again? So understanding that we are not just reactive to something we know, but rather that we say, “What do we need to do to master this?” Just as you say, what we do not know yet, whether it is possibly an IT attack that happens in a way we have not seen before, and so on and so forth. And your question is a bit misleading because, if we knew, then it wouldn’t be correct to say that we don’t know. But creating stability for a crisis whose trigger we do not know, that’s the other challenge. And I believe that we’re good at that. By the way, this also includes the realisation that this can certainly be measured. That you’re certainly the right contact person, that the frequency of crisis is more likely to increase than decrease, and that the amplitude, meaning their size and extent also seems to be increasing. So it becomes a kind of continuous knowledge to deal with crises, as difficult as it sounds.

[AH] But that’s what we take away from this conversation. Lufthansa appears to be well-prepared, not only in perception, but also strategically.

[KF] And we do everything we can.

[AH] Thank you, Klaus Froese and Professor Berghoff for this crisis discussion. I put it in quotation marks: as the saying goes, “See the crisis as an opportunity”. Lufthansa seems to have always managed to do that so far.

[KF] Many thanks from my side as well. It’s a difficult topic, but you might have noticed that I also enjoy doing this. As paradoxical as it may sound, because it’s one of our core tasks to deal with crises as an airline company, as Deutsche Lufthansa.

[HB] Yes, I would also like to express my thanks. That was a very stimulating conversation, Mr Froese, Ms Heyde. It was very beneficial for me personally because I am more of a theorist, to speak with the practitioner and see that we might not be so far apart. That is really nice. Thank you very much.

[AH] Then I thank you again and tease our next episode. We want to take a closer look at the development of the Lufthansa route network. What stopovers did the “crane” make in the ’50s and ’60s on its way to Buenos Aires or Bangkok? How have the central so-called hubs developed, and what impact did the new jets have on the routing? I’m curious, and if you are too then look forward to the upcoming episode of ‘Above and Beyond’. Until then!

[VO] That was Above and Beyond—the podcast of Lufthansa Airlines. More insights into aviation will be available in the next episode. And for those who don't want to wait that long, follow our Instagram channel lufthansaviews. As always, you can find all the links in the show notes.